When people think Game Developers should be (in better terms) slaved long work hours

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Kuurion

IE Kuuribro IE Kuubeans ID Kuubutts
Jul 3, 2009
1,204
151
29
Land of Frost and Maple
ourworld.katbox.net
#2
As a junior artist in an actual studio, I can say I agree with this. I love my job because they DON'T pull this on us. We had one week or doing 'crunch' which was just 10-hour days on a 4-day work week to get something out and even that was starting to get grindy because it was out of the norm.

People function better when they're allowed to recharge outside of work. And you can't force passion to keep you going, it has to be a voluntary desire and effort of passion. Company-mandated passion is ... not a thing.
 

Eradose

Outside contributer, not comunuty member.
Jun 1, 2009
4,229
320
www.furaffinity.net
#3
Ugh... Hard to thick this kind of shit still goes on. Seriously, does anyone remember back when people worked 23 hours a day for little pay with zero consideration for workplace safety? That was why we have labor laws in the first place, and it seems these practices are completely ignoring these laws that have been around for almost a century.

Seriously, between these draconian practices, and the companies trying to screw over customers for their bottom line, it seems we're slowly sliding back the hands of progress in that regard.
 
#4
Ugh... Hard to thick this kind of shit still goes on. Seriously, does anyone remember back when people worked 23 hours a day for little pay with zero consideration for workplace safety? That was why we have labor laws in the first place, and it seems these practices are completely ignoring these laws that have been around for almost a century.

Seriously, between these draconian practices, and the companies trying to screw over customers for their bottom line, it seems we're slowly sliding back the hands of progress in that regard.
23 hours/6 days a week, since in elden times, Sunday was consider sacred - church.

What this man wants to enforce into the industry is pretty much what has led to cases of suicide on all work fields, and workers hurting their coworkers when they go in some sort of mental breakdown for patron abuse or overwork stress.
 

ID

The Katboss
Administrator
Apr 17, 2007
2,752
480
35
Northern Kentucky
www.katbox.net
#8
Guys like this ruin perfectly good jobs. The problem seems to be that guys like him are so dedicated, so hardworking, that they rise to a position where their insanity is able to influence the workplace culture. He seems to know full well that the job is not life to the vast majority of people, he just doesn't care about them. They don't share his mentality so they don't matter. People like him are what give rise to unions or pushback culture, because their workaholic insanity has to be combated.

Notice his copious employment (irony) of the No True Scottsman fallacy. He wants to define REAL engineers, REAL developers as people who meet a very narrow list of qualifications. A REAL engineer wants to work long, grueling hours and doesn't care about money. Want a work/life balance? Well you're not a REAL engineer. Glenn from Edinburgh isn't a REAL Scottsman because he puts sugar in his porridge.
 
Mar 26, 2010
1,911
68
Land of the Free
Personal Text
Stand up for what you believe in!
#9
Guys like this ruin perfectly good jobs. The problem seems to be that guys like him are so dedicated, so hardworking, that they rise to a position where their insanity is able to influence the workplace culture. He seems to know full well that the job is not life to the vast majority of people, he just doesn't care about them. They don't share his mentality so they don't matter. People like him are what give rise to unions or pushback culture, because their workaholic insanity has to be combated.

Notice his copious employment (irony) of the No True Scottsman fallacy. He wants to define REAL engineers, REAL developers as people who meet a very narrow list of qualifications. A REAL engineer wants to work long, grueling hours and doesn't care about money. Want a work/life balance? Well you're not a REAL engineer. Glenn from Edinburgh isn't a REAL Scottsman because he puts sugar in his porridge.
I think he does have some slightly valid but poorly worded and/or described ideas. Mainly that my generation has weak skin. Too often I hear lately about "outrage culture" this idea that anything that triggers negative emotions is to be shunned or removed from society. It's a very scary world view and one that makes the victims no different than those they wish "silenced." I also believe that adversity should be embraced and that much of my generation feels they are special and thus don't need to work as hard/entitled to top tier employment/opportunity right out the gate. That said the fact he wants to force his view on others and that the ONLY way is "elbow grease" isn't any better. As I said the truth is often somewhere in the middle.

The idea of working people to death is a bad one. Studies have shown that balance produces the best results.
 

ID

The Katboss
Administrator
Apr 17, 2007
2,752
480
35
Northern Kentucky
www.katbox.net
#10
I think he does have some slightly valid but poorly worded and/or described ideas. Mainly that my generation has weak skin. Too often I hear lately about "outrage culture" this idea that anything that triggers negative emotions is to be shunned or removed from society. It's a very scary world view and one that makes the victims no different than those they wish "silenced." I also believe that adversity should be embraced and that much of my generation feels they are special and thus don't need to work as hard/entitled to top tier employment/opportunity right out the gate. That said the fact he wants to force his view on others and that the ONLY way is "elbow grease" isn't any better. As I said the truth is often somewhere in the middle.

The idea of working people to death is a bad one. Studies have shown that balance produces the best results.
I agree with all your points.
 

Cervelet

The Katbox
Jan 5, 2015
1,006
236
30
#11
Durning the industrialization, workers were forced to do extremely long workdays, often up to 16 hours.
They then found out that workers would turn the same amount of production out with 8h to 10h long days, by virtue of being able to focus on their work because they were not constantly inches away from burnout.

GUYS WE'VE KNOWN THAT FOR LIKE 80 YEARS OR SO NOW. People advocating stress and giant workdays are utter twats ignoring the finding of a century's worth of studies and work.
 
Likes: Pontius

Pontius

Katbox Forum Member
Sep 21, 2007
1,342
25
28
Maryland
#12
Programmers generally get the short end of the stick, and have for some time when they aren't programmers of passion. I… thought this was well known? I mean, I know there is a reason people in the field routinely tell students / interns / those considering jumping in "Be prepared for the occasional 80+ hour work weeks that you might not even be paid for until a couple months later, let alone overtime", but after the third or fourth scandal of some big company being found to drive their workers to (in some cases) triple-digit hour work weeks I would have thought that we'd be well past the point of needing to tell people "This isn't some fiendish possibility looming over the near future: It's happening right now". This is something that has been present in the Gaming Industry and should have been changed over a decade ago (STEM too, for that matter, but that's another topic for outside the Gaming sub forum and similarly predates it significantly), but - like the mythical hydra - seems to sprout new heads every time one is extinguished.

Durning the industrialization, workers were forced to do extremely long workdays, often up to 16 hours.
They then found out that workers would turn the same amount of production out with 8h to 10h long days, by virtue of being able to focus on their work because they were not constantly inches away from burnout.

GUYS WE'VE KNOWN THAT FOR LIKE 80 YEARS OR SO NOW. People advocating stress and giant workdays are utter twats ignoring the finding of a century's worth of studies and work.
I started to get a bit long-winded and typed out / deleted something like five distinct paragraphs in response to this, but to cut myself down to a tl;dr "Never underestimate the depths of "I'll do it why won't you?", short-term planning / focuses at the expense of the long-term, and a desire / need to satisfy shareholders".

Too often I hear lately about "outrage culture" this idea that anything that triggers negative emotions is to be shunned or removed from society.
Coincidentally - and this is going to be a brief segue since this is a bit off topic from OP - I find that I see more people being 'triggered' (in an excessively thin-skinned fashion at that) at the idea of triggers and the hair brained idea of people maybe possibly kinda control the sewage that spews from their mouth than I do proposing the merits of trigger-warnings and treating other people like other living beings with feelings and whatnot.

Also, a bit more on topic,

I also believe that adversity should be embraced
Adversity is definitely not the word you want to use here. He is, to degrees, re-wrapping the whole schtiel of the Protestant / Puritan work ethic (which in itself was a re-wrapping of a few others), which can be condensed down to "Adversity is good and should be embraced".
 

Paradoxfox

Webcomic Dude
Mar 2, 2011
1,035
19
Burger Land
www.co-comic.com
Personal Text
I hope you rike it!
#13
The top comment person of that article lost a lot of money. It really puts things in perspective. I won't ever subject myself to overly long hours, unless the pay makes sense. Those old people really dislike millenials...
 

Cervelet

The Katbox
Jan 5, 2015
1,006
236
30
#14
WHAT but you're not supposed to ENJOY work you are supposed to WORK until you FORGET YOU'RE ALIVE and ANYWAY you YOUG PEOPLE ARE LASY back in my day SCHOOL WAS MUCH HARDER and you will see the FUTURE WILL SUCK.

On a side not this is no me imitating my grandparents because they are pretty chill but my stepfather. XD